Thomas Jefferson Papers

Notes on Speeches of Homastubbee and Puckshunubbee, 13 December 1803

Notes on Speeches of Homastubbee
and Puckshunubbee

1803. Dec. 13. Mingo Omah Stebbé

We are the fathers of red men

has come far to state affrs his nation

hopes will listen

does not go into old talks

to begin anew

supposes has heard his business

he is red, people poor, no slaves no money

game destroyed. in debt.

called on for paimt. no means but land

not secret. public, not ashamd of poverty

Indians who are decd. gave lands to British.

this laid over till we desired line which was run

the land he wishes to sell is joining on Tombigby

this he supposes we have heard before.

the land he offers is by the voice of his nation

this settled at mr Dinsmore’s

he is going to move to other side of nation

is that by our orders?

he sent a talk from Ft. Adams askg. a factory on Tombigby. they were sent accdly.

when they were sent with annuity asked for a bit of land to fix on.

the annuity he thot a present not to be paid for in land.

agent wanted a place higher up river or he would move to Chickasawhay or six towns or send them back

the land they now offer is the last they can spare

must now turn in to work.

begs we will not incroach on land, but protect it

this is what he has long wished to say, face to face

little land many people hunting done, must work

individuals want to buy land.

will be reduced to poverty without assistce & protection

has often heard of big white house, never saw it

his house is also called White house, house of peace

has heard of 3. fathers. 1st. decd. 3d here

hopes will be always peace between reds & wh.

he is willing to go on & see country as soon as talks are done, & to return back

when he returns back to this place wishes to go back partly by water, but rather by land thro’ the Creek nation. he is a heavy man. yet was no more than a leaf on board ship. hopes to be sent back by land.

the interpreter old as himself, agent has moved him to Chickasawhay. this part of nation was this our order.

white people who read & write never forget

not so with reds, nothing but memory.

he is sent here by the young not the old.

does not speak for the opposition party.


Puckshanubbé

his part of nation considd as one fire

he never before spoke to the great men

has come contrary to his expectn

they have always been friends to whites

never warred agt whites. never shed their blood

poor red men

people to whom old talks sent, all decd

his part of nation without a great man

what now says is from warriors of his part of nation

there are crazy red people, young & foolish tho’ long acqd with whites.

the elder decd. & gone

he sent a talk by Genl Wilkinson Ft. Adams

in that he proposed to come. he rejoices

tho’ the day is cloudy he expresses what his heart thinks.

his wishes always for peace

white path from him to Chickasaws

their talk all one tho a little way apart

from them informn of whites

his thoughts are only for to make provn

glad to see me in my own house

if I was young would invite to his house

consider them as poor & love them.

are red, surrounded by whites.

has no thought of turng eyes but to us.

hopes we will extricate from poverty

white path is open. a long one.

the mischief done by whites as well as reds

white man always notes on paper.

wishes what they now say may be committed to paper & sent to his red men that they may know what he said.

it was to the English not to us they gave lands

has been lately re-marked to us.

the old who are decd sold it.

but never heard they recieved anything for it.

yet he does not ask pay, is too late.

he cannot trace it down. can only repeat hearsay.

when the English bot, their talks were in their country. promd shd. be the last line

hopes it will be the last line that will be run between them & whites.

Wilkinson’s line is come on paper.

nobody to live on the line, a little way off.

people settling on the line. disputes.

poor. red. make nothing but children. make many

lands scarce of game. great debt. cant pay

their mercht. calls for money.

if they had property to pay, would not beg.

no money no slaves.

has given land to pay debt if we will take it

the place sold us is his favorite place.

it is to be the last.

remr will be soon filled with red people

a man loves his chdr. hopes we will love & assist them

little land, many people. willing to work, no means

if any thing occurs will speak another day.


[on verso:]

land begins on bank of Talahatche Yazoo opposite where, Genl: Wilkinson begun his

running on a direct line across to Missipi

their boundary with Chickasaws on the Mispi is Little prairies, a little below mouth of St. Francis

about 34–30

MS (DLC: TJ Papers, 137:23620); entirely in TJ’s hand; endorsed: “Choctaws. notes of their speeches.”

Homastubbee (d. ca. 1809) was the principal chief of one of the three geographical divisions of the Choctaws. In an address to U.S. commissioners in 1801, he asked that the United States carry through with an intention to provide the Choctaws with instruction in spinning and weaving and with tools and agricultural implements. He participated in other treaty negotiations in 1802 and 1805. Homastubbee’s name often appears in conjunction with the title “Mingo,” which in his case acknowledged his position as a leader of one of the major tribal divisions. As shown by TJ’s writing it “Omah Stebbé” in the notes printed above, the name appears with various spellings (ASP description begins American State Papers: Documents, Legislative and Executive, of the Congress of the United States, Washington, D.C., 1832-61, 38 vols. description ends , Indian Affairs, 1:662; Charles J. Kappler, comp. and ed., Indian Affairs: Laws and Treaties, 5 vols. [Washington, D.C., 1975], 2:57, 64, 88; Greg O’Brien, Choctaws in a Revolutionary Age, 1750-1830 [Lincoln, Neb., 2002], 102-3; Clara Sue Kidwell, Choctaws and Missionaries in Mississippi, 1818-1918 [Norman, Okla., 1995], 17; Valerie Lambert, Choctaw Nation: A Story of American Indian Resurgence [Lincoln, Neb., 2007], 27; Grayson Noley, “1540: The First European Contact” and “The Early 1700s: Education, Economics, and Politics,” in Carolyn Keller Reeves, ed., The Choctaw Before Removal [Jackson, Miss., 1985], 56-7, 96).

has come far to state affrs his nation: in September, Puckshunubbee headed a group of leaders who proposed a cession of land to clear the Choctaws’ debts to traders. Forwarding that petition, U.S. agent Silas Dinsmoor advised Dearborn that a Choctaw delegation would be traveling to Washington. In addition to Homastubbee and Puckshunubbee, the group included three other men. Dearborn referred to all of them as chiefs. The notes printed above are TJ’s record of what Homastubbee and Puckshunubbee said in conference with him on 13 Dec. Homastubbee opened his address by identifying the delegation as leaders, “fathers,” of their nation. The meeting with TJ appears to have followed the protocols of a Choctaw council meeting, with speakers going in turn by seniority. It was common for orators in council meetings to pause after each sentence to allow hearers to express their approval. From TJ’s notes, it seems likely that in this meeting an interpreter translated each sentence into English during that pause (Dinsmoor to Dearborn, 30 Sep., 2 Oct., recorded in DNA: RG 107, RLRMS; Dearborn to Dinsmoor, 9 Jan. 1804, in DNA: RG 75, LSIA; Sturtevant, Handbook description begins William C. Sturtevant, Handbook of North American Indians, Washington, D.C., 1978- , 15 vols. description ends , 14:508; Vol. 41:401–3).

sent a talk from ft. adams askg. a factory on tombigby: in an address to commissioners James Wilkinson, Benjamin Hawkins, and Andrew Pickens in a treaty conference at Fort Adams in December 1801, Homastubbee directed a portion of his remarks to the president of the United States. The mingo asked for a trading store at Fort Stoddert, which was on the Mobile River downstream from the confluence of the Tombigbee and the Alabama, or at Fort St. Stephens, which was on the Tombigbee. The government established a trading factory at St. Stephens in 1802 (ASP description begins American State Papers: Documents, Legislative and Executive, of the Congress of the United States, Washington, D.C., 1832-61, 38 vols. description ends , Indian Affairs, 1:662; Kidwell, Choctaws and Missionaries, 22; Vol. 39:277n).

Choctaws called the division of their nation located in the watershed of the chickasawhay River the six towns people (Kidwell, Choctaws and Missionaries, 3-4).

heard of 3. fathers. 1st. decd. 3d here: that is, three presidents of the United States, the first of whom was deceased. Some of the Choctaws at the treaty negotiation with the federal commissioners in 1801 had met George Washington in Philadelphia (ASP description begins American State Papers: Documents, Legislative and Executive, of the Congress of the United States, Washington, D.C., 1832-61, 38 vols. description ends , Indian Affairs, 1:662).

For what lay behind Homastubbee’s request to return home by land, see TJ’s reply of 17 Dec.

Speakers at the conference at Fort Adams in 1801 pointed out the limitations of having only one interpreter for the three divisions of the Choctaws (ASP description begins American State Papers: Documents, Legislative and Executive, of the Congress of the United States, Washington, D.C., 1832-61, 38 vols. description ends , Indian Affairs, 1:661-2).

their talk all one tho a little way apart: the Choctaw and Chickasaw languages, although not identical, were closely related (Sturtevant, Handbook description begins William C. Sturtevant, Handbook of North American Indians, Washington, D.C., 1978- , 15 vols. description ends , 14:71; 17:109).

land begins on bank of talahatche yazoo: the Tallahatchie River is an upper tributary of the Yazoo. Little Prairie, located on the Arkansas River a few miles above where that river enters the Mississippi, had been the site of a French trading outpost beginning in the seventeenth century. Before and during the American Revolution, a British post on the eastern bank of the Mississippi marked the vicinity of Little Prairie to the west (Jeannie M. Whayne, Thomas A. DeBlack, George Sabo III, and Morris S. Arnold, Arkansas: A Narrative History, 2d ed. [Fayetteville, Ark., 2013], 43, 68).

Index Entries