John Jay Papers
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Richard Oswald to Thomas Townshend, 7 October 1782

Richard Oswald to Thomas Townshend

Paris 7th Octr 1782

Sir

Referring to my Letters of the 2d & 3d, by the Courier North, and to one of the 5th, which goes under this Cover,1 I have the honour to send you inclosed the plan or Articles of a final Treaty proposed between Great Britain and the Thirteen States of America; Which being settled, was deliverd to me by Mr Jay on the 5th. in his own hand writing, after it had been approved of by Doctr Franklin, as he at same time informed me.2

And which, by any Conversation I previously had with those Gentlemen, or Since I received it, may be considered as including the whole of their Demands, Necessary or Advisable, and, if agreed to on our part, as a Compleat and finished Treaty; with an Exception only of the usual formalities of reference to Commissions &ca. Also that, as to the point of Ratification, so as to establish Peace, it must wait for our Conclusion with France; as you will please to observe is declared in the preamble.

After considering the Terms, as they stand in the Treaty, I thought there was no reason to object to the Boundary Lines of the Thirteen States, excepting that there is a part of Nova Scotia cutt off on the Bay of Fundy. I called on Mr Jay this Morning, and found him willing to Sett that matter to rights, So as the Massachusetts Governmt shall have no more of that Coast than they had before the War. He took his directions from Maps, and they are not distinct; nor do they agree in this matter. This is in the mean time referred, to be afterwards properly adjusted.3

I next talkt to him about the Claim of Drying Fish on the Island of Newfoundland, as not having been mentioned, or included in Dr Franklins Necessary Articles, Mr Jay said he put them into the Treaty to avoid an Appearance of unneighborly distinctions, and considering them ^it^ as not material to us, there being room enough for both of us, as well as for the French. But if we thought otherwise, he would not say but they might give it up, rather than we should be dissatisfied about it, beleiving their People would not much value the Priviledge; and would in general chuse to bring their Fish to their own Coasts, as they used to do. On this Subject, if I might Speak my Opinion, it is a question whether we ought to insist on their Exclusion, while the French enjoy that Conveniency: and on that account, altho’ the Americans had not desired a Similar priviledge, if ^whether^ there would have been any harm in offering it to them; Since their Exclusion would be always attended with a Grudge.

In my last Letter I advised that the Value of the Ungranted Lands in the Several Colonies could not be Saved, as a Fund at His Majestys disposal, as the Commissioners insisted that every property belonging to the Crown must go with other Rights within the Thirteen States. In case, Sir, you should think it proper that I should press this matter further, you will be pleased to let me know. At same time I must confess that considering the little chance of success, and that I look upon the Treaty as now closed, I doubt whether it would be proper to open it on this account. In any other Case, one would not say so. But where there is no Controul on one Side & Circumstances press for decision perhaps it may be proper, if other things are Right, not to insist on a provision of this kind Standing part of the Treaty. At Same time as a great Sum may be raised out of this Property, as well as out of what is Cutt of[f] from Canada, it would not be taken amiss by the Commissioners, if it was submitted to their Consideration & equity in a Seperate way from any determination regarding the treaty. A Seperate Letter on that Subject laying Claim to their Justice & good Sense, in distinguishing between a Resignation of Property, no way connected with those of Legislation and Government, & intended for the relief of unfortunate Sufferers, may have some weight with the Several provinces in softening their resentment against some of the People, and extending their Indulgence to them accordingly in the way of Restitution or Indemnification. But, as I have said, If the Treaty is otherways approved of, I offer it as my humble opinion, that an Expectation of this kind had best be Suggested independently, and sent me in a Seperate Letter, to be laid before the Commissioners.4

I touched also upon the Debts due to British Subjects, and my apprehensions of Loss by Confiscations. Mr Jay replied that he ^had^ heard of no Such Confiscations but in the Province of Maryland; which he seemed not to approve of. However, as I had before ^been^ satisfied that they, as Commissioners, could do nothing in the matter, I did not insist farther upon it.5

Before we parted, this Gentleman came again upon the Subject of West Florida; and pled in favour of the future Commerce of England, as if he had been of her Council & wishing to make some reparation for her Loss. Amongst other things, he repeated, that there is Water Carriage by Rivers or Lakes all the way within Land, from Canada to the Mouth of the Missisippi, excepting a few ^short^ Stoppages of Portage; So that, for Outward Merchandize, we might engross the whole of their Supplies, for a Stretch of Country between two and three thousand Miles. And in like manner (chiefly by means of the Missisippi) receive their Country Commodities in return and particularly Should embrace the whole of the Fur Trade. In all which I am Satisfied he is well founded6

At last he Said he wished much to be informed whether our Government will adopt this Measure of recovering that Colony, So as he might know how to shape his conduct with respect to Spain; and desired to be at a Certainty before he had any farther Conference with their Ambassador—to which he is much Sollicited with a view to entering into a Treaty with them; in which he understands they want, amongst other things, that we shall be entirely Shutt out of any part of the Gulph of Mexico from Cape Florida to Cape Catoche.7

In answer I told Mr Jay that I should write immediately, and should inform him of any Commands I had on the Subject. But told him, there would be a difficulty, as I had mentioned before, regarding the Evacuation of those Garrisons, without the necessary Letters from them to make it safe and easy.

To which he replied the best way will be this: “Do you now Send over this Treaty to your Ministry. If they approve of it, You and We will Sign ^a Copy of^ it when it is sent back; and the same being returned to England, it may be sent over to Sir Guy Carleton, with Orders to publish it as a finished business: and also ^he may at same time^, upon the foundation of it, Settle a Convention with Generl Washington for the evacuation of the Garrisons; and We Shall also write him what is necessary; which may be sent from England along with the Treaty; adding at Same time that Count Rochambau is under Generl Washingtons Orders, and can do nothing Separately.[”]

If this Should be approved of ^he said^ [“]Your Court may keep a Frigate ready to go at a moments warning with these papers, and any orders that may be necessary for Convoys, Transports, &ca.”

He at the same time called for the inclosed Copy I had made of the Treaty, and Scored the Words which you see Struck out, being That “they neither Should make Peace or Truce.[“] which he said was unnecessarily harsh” He also interlined the two words in the preamble, “or accepted.[”] and Sett out for Dr Franklins Quarters to have his opinion as to their writing Letters to General Washington on the Subject of the Evacuation of the Garrisions, and also respecting the Boundaries of Nova Scotia. When he returns I shall make a Report of his Answer in a Separate Letter.

In the mean time I have called on Mr Fitzherbert and have Shewen him this Sketch of the Treaty, and have informed him of any thing which I think may be of use in his Business. And he has informed me of the Count de Ver gennes Propositions, and has Shewen me the Memorial of the Count d’Aranda. If the West Florida Scheme were to take place, I think it would Settle Some of the points in that Memorial, as well in the recovery of that Colony, as of all the Bahama Islands we have lost. Untill Mr Jays return, I have not farther to add, but that I am Sir Your most obedient humble Servant

Richard Oswald8

Mr Secretary Townshend

ALS, UkLPR: FO 27/ 2. Cs, UkLPR: FO 95/ 511 and 97/ 157; MiU-C: Shelburne 70. Enclosure: Richard Oswald, Preliminary Articles: First Draft, [5–8] Oct. 1782, above.

1See Oswald to Townshend, 2 and 5 Oct., above; and, for 3 Oct. 1782, Cs, UKLPR: FO 27/ 2, 95/ 511, and 97/ 157; and MiU-C: Shelburne 70.

3On the maps used in these negotiations, see JJUP, 2 description begins Richard B. Morris et al., eds., John Jay, vol. 2, The Winning of the Peace: Unpublished Papers, 1780–1784 (New York, 1980) description ends : 382–84. The negotiators eventually settled on the Saint Croix River as the boundary between Maine (then still part of Massachusetts) and Nova Scotia without being certain which of several rivers in the area was so denominated. A boundary commission agreed to as part of the Jay Treaty of 1794 finally determined in 1798 that the Saint Croix was in fact the Schoodic River. See Leamon, Revolution Downeast description begins James S. Leamon, Revolution Downeast: The War for American Independence in Maine (Amherst, Mass., 1993) description ends , 180–81.

4For final resolution of this matter, see “Signing the Definitive Treaty” (editorial note) on pp. 462–67.

5The various states put substantial impediments in the way of British creditors collecting on both prewar and postwar debts. See Richeson, Aftermath of Revolution description begins Charles R. Richeson, Aftermath of Revolution: British Policy toward the United States, 1783–1795 (Dallas, 1969) description ends , 63–64.

6See “The Separate Article” (editorial note) on pp. 162–64.

7Cape Florida is a point at the southern end of Biscayne Bay; Cape Catoche is the northeast extremity of the Yucatán peninsula.

8For Townshend’s reply, see his letter to Oswald of 26 Oct. 1782, below.

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