By the Courier Ranspach, who arrived here on the 3d, I had the honour of your Letter of the 1st Instant. Upon receipt of it, I went out to Doctr. Franklin, He asked me whether I had any directions relative to the point upon which the last Courier had been dispatched to England, regarding a previous Declaration of their Independence before a commencement of Treaty. I told him I had got Instructions on that head, which although they empowered me only to make such Declaration as in the first Article of the Treaty, yet I hoped upon a due Consideration of the matter, they would appear to be fully satisfying. He said, if there was no particular objection, he could wish to have a Copy of that Instruction.1 I told him it should be sent to him. He was ill at the time; and as he could not come to Town, he gave me a Letter to Mr Jay, desiring him to come out to him in the Evening.2

I called on that Gentleman, When, informing ^him^ of the manner in which I was authorised to treat, He said they could not proceed unless their Independence was previously so acknowledged, as to be entirely distinct and unconnected with Treaty. In the course of this Conversation, and the day thereafter, a good deal was said of the same nature with what had passed on former occasions relative to this Subject, as advised in my Letters of last Month.

Two days ago, Doctr Franklin sent to me, desiring a Copy of the Instruction which I ^had^ promised, as abovementioned. I copied out the first part of your Letter of the 1st Instant, leaving out some immaterial Words, & sent it inclosed in a Letter from myself. Of both of which papers there is a Duplicate under this cover.

Since then, I have seen Mr Jay frequently, and have used every Argument in my power to get him over his Objections to Treating, without a Separate and absolute acknowledgement of Independence. And for that purpose, I found it necessary, (although unwillingly), yet as of my own private opinion, to tell him, that there might be a doubt whether the Powers in the Act of Parliament, went so far, as to allow of making that Grant, otherways than as in the course of a Treaty for Peace; which, as you are pleased to observe, was the sole object of the Act.

I said moreover, That if they persisted in this Demand, there Would be nothing done untill the meeting of Parliament, & perhaps for some considerable time thereafter. That certain Articles had been already agreed upon; and if We went on and Settled the Treaty on that footing, with Independence standing as the First Article of it, we might give opportunity to the foreign Treaties to be going on at the same time; So as, for a Conclusion of general Peace, there might be nothing wanting, at the meeting of Parliament, but a Confirmation of the said first Article, in case it should be then thought necessary; which I imagine would not be the case.

In answer to this, Mr Jay said, there could be no judgement formed as to when the foreign Treaties would end, and that untill that with France was concluded, they of the Colonies could not give us either Peace or Truce. Nor could they could they presume, so much as to give an Opinion of the Demands of France, whatever they might be; Since untill their Independence was acknowledged, absolutely and unconnected with Treaty, they were as no body, and as no People. And France could tell them so, if they were to pretend to interfere; having failed in acquiring that Character, for which they had jointly contended, And therefore they must go on with France, untill England gave them satisfaction on the point in question. That to this they were bound by Treaty; which their Constituents were determined honestly and faithfully to fulfill.

That being the case, it could not be expected that they, as Servants, could take it upon them to dispense with the said Acknowledgment.

That by looking over the sundry Resolves of the Congress, I might see that that Assembly did not mean to seek for their Character in an Article of any Treaty. And for that purpose, Mr Jay recommended to me the perusal of sundry parts of their proceedings, as they stood in the Journals of the Congress, which he would mark out for me; And if I would extract, & send them to England, they would serve, at least as an Excuse, for them as Commissioners, ^in^ thinking themselves bound to abide by their demand. Mr. Jay accordingly gave me Four Volumes of their Journals, with sundry Passages markt out as above. Mr Whiteford has been so good to copy them out; and they are enclosed.3

Mr Jay was kind enough also to read to me an Article of their Instructions to the same purpose, and likeways contain paragraphs to two late Letters from his Colleague, Mr John Adams in Holland, expressly declaring that they ought not to proceed in a Treaty with England, untill their Independence is acknowledged.4

In the course of these Conversations it may be supposed this Gentleman took frequent Opportunities to refer to the Offer by Mr Grenville, to acknowledge their Independence in the first instance. Which they always considered to be absolute, & unconnected in every shape with the process of a Treaty: and could not conceive the reason why that which we were willing to give them in May, should be refused in August. If it proceeded from there being less Confidence on Our Side, on this occasion, the Change ought to make them still more cautious than usual on their part. Mr. Jay also insisted also on that Offer of Mr Grenville, as a proof, that the same thing being denied now, could not proceed from any Supposition of restraint in the Enabling Act.5

To avoid being tedious, I forbear repeating a great many more things to the same purpose which passed in those Conversations with Mr. Jay.

Mr Franklin being so much out of order, I could not think of disturbing him by frequent Visits to passy and therefore continued taking proper Opportunities of talking to Mr. Jay; & the more readily that by any Judgement that I would form of his real Intentions, I could not possibly doubt of their pointing directly at a speedy conclusion of the War; & also leaning as favourably to the side of England, as might be consistent with the duties of the Trust he has undertaken.

To convince me that nothing less than this stood in the way of agreeing to my requests of accomodating this Difficulty in some shape or other, he told me at last that if Doctr Franklin would consent, he was willing, in place of an express previous acknowledgement of Independence, to accept of a constructive Denomination of Character, to be introduced in the preamble of the Treaty, by only describing their Constituents as the Thirteen United States of America. Upon my appearing to listen to this, and to Consent to the Substitution, He said, but you have no authority in your Commission to Treat with us under that Denomination. For the sundry Descriptions of the Parties to be treated with, as they stand in that Commission, will not bear such application to the Character we are directed to claim & abide by, as to support and authenticate any Act of your Subscription to that purpose, & particularly to the Substitution now proposed. There are such a variety of Denominations in that Commission, that it may be applied to the People you see walking the Streets, as well as to us.

Where, in reply, I imputed that Variety to the official Stile of such like Papers, Mr. Jay said it may be so, but they must not Rest a Question of that Importance, upon any such explanation. And since they were willing to accept of this, in place of an express Declaration of Independence, the least they could expect was, that it should appear to be warranted by an Explicit Authority in the Commission.

I then asked if, instead of States, it would not do to say Provinces; Or States or Provinces— Mr. Jay said neither of those would answer.6

I then begged the favour of him, to give me in writing, some Sketch of the Alteration he would have to be made in the Commission. He readily did so, in a Minute ^which is^ inclosed; to be more largely explained, if necessary when the Commission comes to be made out. He also said, that this New Commission must be under the Great Seal, as the other was.

Before I quitted this Subject, I tried one other expedient for saving time, & avoiding the necessity of a New Commission; by reading to Mr Jay the Second Article of my Instructions, which empowers me to treat with them, as commissioned by Constituents of any denomination whatever. And told him that although this Power meant only to apply to Character as assumed by them, & not to my an admission by me without exception; yet in the present described Character of States, I would not only admit this assuming that Appellation, in the preamble of the Treaty, but I would venture to repeat it, so as it should appear to be an Acknowledgement on my part.7 In doing so I could not suppose any hazard of objection at home, considering what had passed on a former occasion as abovementioned, together with the said power in my Instructions. But Mr Jay said they would admit of no Authority but what was explicitly conveyed to me by a Commission in the usual form. And therefore, to put an end to this difficulty, there was an absolute necessity of a new Commission.

He at the same time told me, That to satisfy His Majestys Ministers of the propriety of their conduct, as Persons under trust, he had sketched out a Letter to me, which I might send home if I pleased. He read the Scroll of it to me, & promised to write it out fair, & give it me before the departure of a Courier.

So the Affair rested yesterday the 9th. When I received a Letter from Doctr Franklin desiring a Copy of the 4th Article of my Instructions, which I had shewen to Mr Jay, as formerly advised. Inclosed there is a Copy of the Doctor’s Letter.8

Doubting as to the propriety of giving such things in writing, I thought it best to go out to the Doctor, carrying the Instructions along with me, to see whether a Reading of that Article would satisfy him. But after reading it, as he still expressed a desire of having a Copy, I told him that although I had no orders for that purpose, yet at any hazard whatsoever, since he desired it, I would not scruple to trust it in his hands. And then sat down, & wrote out a Copy, & signed it. Which after comparing with the Original he laid by, saying very kindly, that the only use he proposed to make of it, was, that, in case they took any liberties, for the sake of removing difficulties, not expressly specified in their Instructions, he might have this paper in his hands to shew, in justification of their Confidence, Or some words to that purpose; for I cant exactly quote them. The Doctr. then desired, that I would tell Mr Jay that he wished to see him in the Evening. He did go out that night, and again this Morning. No doubt with a view of agreeing upon an expedient for removing those Obstacles to their proceeding, as hinted at in the Doctor’s Letter to me. At Noon, and since writing the above, Mr Jay called, & told me, that upon further consultation, & consideration of the matter, it was thought adviseable not to press upon His Majestys Ministers those Arguments which he proposed to make use of in the Letter he intended to write me, (& which it was understood I might send home) as considering it somewhat more than indelicate ^for them^ to pretend to see more clearly than the Kings Ministers might do, the expediency, if not the necessity, at this critical time, to decide with precision and dispatch, upon every measure that can be reasonably taken, for extricating Great Britain from out of the pr[esent] embarrassing Situation in which her affairs must continue to be involved, while there remains any hesitation in coming to an Agreement with the States of America.

I liked the Scroll of the Letter so much when it was read to me yesterday, that I was Sorry it was withheld. I even pressed to be entrusted with it, in gratification of my own private wish that the Writer of it might receive from good Men, that Share of applause that is due to those who wish well to the peace of Mankind in general, and who seem not to be desirous of expunging alltogether from their breast the Impressions which had been fixed there by those habits & natural feelings by which Individuals are tied in attachment to particular combinations of Society and Country. But I could not prevail, and was obliged to be contented with a Recommendation to Say what I thought proper in my own way.

Finding it so, There remained for me, only to ask a single and final Question of Mr. Jay. Whether in this his last Conference with Dr Franklin, this Morning (for he was just then come in from him) it was settled between them, That upon my receiving from His Majesty a new Commission, under the Great Seal, such as the Last, with an Alteration only as before mentioned, of my being empowered to Treat with them as Commissioners of the Thirteen United States of America, naming the said States by their several provincial distinctions, as usual— I said Whether in that case, they would be satisfied to go on with the Treaty, and without any other Declaration of Independence, than as standing as an Article of that Treaty.

Mr Jay’s Answer was, That with this they would be satisfied, and that immediately upon such Commission coming over, they would proceed in the Treaty. And more than that, said, they would not be long about it; and perhaps would not be over hard upon us in the Conditions.

Having stated those Conversations and other Circumstances as they actually passed to the best of my remembrance, it would not become me to go further by giving any Opinion as to the measures proper to be taken in consequence therof. Yet, Sir, I hope you will excuse me, & I think it my duty to say this much, that, by what I have been able to learn of the Sentiments of the American Commissioners, in case the Compromise now proposed (which with great difficulty they have been persuaded to agree to) is refused, there will be an end to all farther Confidence and Communication with them, The Consequences of which I will not presume to touch upon, either as regarding American or foreign Affairs. On the other hand, if the Expedient of a New Commission is adopted, I beg leave to say that no time ought to be lost in dispatching it.

There being now Four Couriers here, and as they may be wanted at home it is thought proper that one of them, as Extra, may go along with the Courier Lauzun who goes from Mr [Fitz]Herbert’s Office. I have the honour to be Sir Your most obedient & most humble Servant,