I had the honour of your Letters of the 20th. & 24th September, the last accompanying his Majesty’s new Commission, alter’d as desired.1 Upon receipt, I produced it to the American Commissioners;2 & they were entirely satisfied therewith. I have also to advise that yesterday I delivered to them a Copy of said Commission after its being compared with the original, and certified by me; and in exchange received from them a Copy of their Commission; which being in like manner compar’d with the original, was certified by Mr. John Jay one of the Commissioners. A Duplicate of said Copy, you have inclosed.3

Dr. Franklin being still in but an indifferent State of health, he could not come to Town; & left this first part of the Business to Mr. Jay. From any thing that passed on the occasion, I have no reason to think worse of the farther progress of it, than as mentioned in my last Advices. In a few days I hope We shall agree upon the principal Articles, of which the Treaty is to consist. When that is done, I shall transmit the same so as to have your Instructions thereon. We have as yet only talk’d of them in a loose way, viz:

First.— Independence.

2d. Settling the Lines of separation or Boundaries between those of the thirteen States, & the British Colonies.

3d.— Giving up the additional Lands of Canada.

4th. Freedom of fishing to the 13 States, for Fish & whales.

These, I say, are all that have as yet been mention’d between Mr. Jay & me. Whether any others will be proposed or insisted on by them, I cannot say; but I hope there will not. Meanwhile, as there will probably be time for a Return of a Courier, before We proceed much farther, I would beg to have an Explanation as to some of the particulars in my Letter of the 11th Ulto.4 respecting the Article of Boundaries of Canada, Nova Scotia, & Georgia; East Florida, & particularly West Florida, how its Boundaries are to be determined with regard to Georgia. That must depend upon the Charter of Georgia, by Grant, or proclamation. I have nothing here to go by, but Maps, & they are no Authority even though they agreed, which these do not.5

By the former Courier I wrote sundry things about this Colony of West Florida, rather in some haste, as the Messenger was just then upon setting off.6 I have given Mr. Jay an account of it; & he greatly approved of the proposal. He is indeed anxious that Great Britain shou’d regain possession of the Colony, on the same footing it stood before the War; Since, he said, their States would not by any means like that the key of that part of the Gulph should be in the hands of the Spaniards, as the whole or the greatest part of the Trade & produce of that great back Country, would most naturally & beneficially issue there: and which, he says, would soon be very considerable; & would ultimately fall into the hands of the English on the Mobile & Missisippi; both in the supply of English Merchandize, & Importn: of American Commodities in return. Rather than leave it in the hands of the Spaniards, he said it would be worth while to embark some of the Troops from New York & Charles Town, & retake it. I mention this only to shew, how desirous they are that that Colony should not remain with the Spaniards; and in Confirmation of the opinion I took the Liberty to give on that Subject in my former Letters.7

In order to make it a King’s Government of some Consequence, I again tried Mr. Jay, whether without regard to what might be the chartered Limits of Georgia, We might not settle it so in the Treaty, that West Florida should be extended to about the Latitude of 34.8 To which he answer’d, although he cou’d wish to give every Encouragement to that Settlement, yet it would not be in their power, as Commissioners, to dismember any of the States: But that it was a matter of little Consequence, whether that upper part, which I aimed at, was under British Government or theirs: The People would agree very well, having one common Interest in the Settlement and prosperity of that great & fertile Country; & in which their People would be in a manner dependent on Great Britain, as having the Command of the Navigation into the Gulph of Mexico, through which the bulk of that Trade must pass. He added that their Traders from the northern Colonies have lately cross’d the Missisippi into the spanish territories & will continue to do so to a still greater Extent, after the War is over, & they begin to Stretch further back in their Settlements; which will occasion an additional Demand for British Merchandise; as those which are laid down near the Spot by Importation from the Gulph through the English settlements, will have the preference on Account of the saving of the Land Carriage from the Atlantic side. Consequently he thinks, as I do, that the Port of West Florida may be of great Advantage to England, as they would become the Mart or Center of a great part of the Trade of America to the Southward, as would Quebec be to the northern parts: By which means, upon the whole, England, having those two keys in its hand, may still enjoy an exclusive Monopoly of a large Share of north american Commerce; & consequently may not happen to be, in point of Trade, so great a Loser by the Change, as is generally imagined.

In the course of this last Conversation with Mr. Jay He repeated his Wish that the Spaniards might be dislodg’d from West Florida; and said, “What are you doing with 20.000 Men (he calld them so many) lying idle, spending of Money in New York & Charles Town, and keeping up a Jealousy & Animosity between you & us, at a time when We are here endeavouring to bring about a Restoration of Friendship & good will. Why not employ some of those Troops, to recover that Colony.”

Upon another occasion, he said, “your Ministry ought [to] take first Opportunity to write to Sir Guy Carleton an account of our being likely to come soon to an amicable & final agreement here, on the footing of an unconditional Independence; and desire that he would immediately publish ^that Intelligence, & at same time give^ Orders to discountenance all those murderous Attempts by scouting parties of what you call Loyalists, or Indians in the Remote parts of the Country.” &c. From this & other parts of that Gentleman’s Conversation, & the good Disposition which I suppose both the Commissioners entertain with respect to England, the following things have occured to me and which, (trusting to the Indulgence which has been hitherto shewn to the Freedom of my Correspondence,) I venture to mention on this occasion viz:

1. When the principal Articles of the Treaty are agreed upon; & reduced to writing, it will surely be proper to resolve upon evacuating our Posts in the 13 States without delay.

2. The manner of doing it to advantage, & without discredit to the Troops, will be a matter of delicacy, if not of some difficulty; so as to save everything there that is valuable.

3. When such Evacuation is resolved upon, an Approbation, from the Commissioners here, accompanying the Transports, will greatly facilitate the Operation, as well as keep up the Countenance of Our People at their Departure.

4. An Understanding between the Commissioners & me being privately settled, that these Troops are to be employ’d in the Recovery of the Colony of West Florida, I should hope would be the means of procuring from them even a Recommendation to Congress & to General Washington to give every Countenance & facility to such Evacuation, so as the Troops might quit those posts, with that Reputation & Honour ^that is^ due to their Character.

5. If the Article of my Instructions, relative to a general Pardon for all supposed Trespasses & Crimes charg’d upon the Loyalists, can obtain the Consent of the Commissioners here, the personal Safety of the Loyalists remaining at those posts will be secured, so as they may dispose of themselves in the Country, as they think proper. Or such as do not chuse to trust themselves even under that provision may depart along with the Troops.

6. In the view or Expectation of the said Loyalists recovering their property, or getting an Indemnification for their Losses, it cannot be supposed that these Garrisons will be kept there, in a State of Inactivity, in the time of War; whilst any of our public Losses, such as the Colony of West Florida, can be recover’d by their means. Therefore the Consideration of what regards the said Sufferers cannot properly operate to the Delay of the Evacuation of those places, for any time after an amicable Acquiescence thereto is obtain’d of the Commissioners here.

7. The Employment of those Troops having been particularly suggested by the Commissioners themselves, and so as to act against an intrench’d Garrison, they must perceive that Artillery will be necessary, & of course can have no Objection to our dismantling all our works, & carrying off our Cannon & military Stores, from New York, Charles Town, Penobscot &c.— I mention this because I have always had a doubt whether there might not arise some Difficulty on this head, and that We might not by compromise or otherways, and for the sake of getting quietly out of that Country, be glad to leave a part of our valuable Artillary and Stores behind us.

8. An Avowal or private acknowledgement of the intended Employment of those Troops against Spain, I suppose would not, in the Eye of the Commissioners, appear as any Infringement of their Treaty with France. I have the Authority, as I have said of the express Words of Mr. Jay in a manner to the contrary: When upon my saying how hard it was, that France shoud pretend to saddle us with all their private Engagements with Spain, and perhaps try to bring them under Cover of the Treaty with the Colonies He replied, No— We will allow no such thing. For We shall say to France, The agreement We made with you, We shall faithfuly perform: But, if you have enter’d into any separate measures with other people, not included in that Agreement; and will load the Negotiation with their Demands, We shall give ourselves no Concern about them.9

9. Supposing I am right in the principles of the preceeding Articles, viz. that any longer Continuance of our Troops at their present posts [illegible] is ^un^necessary; ^except^ for keeping pace with a final Settlement with the Americans; and there can be no Objection to moving them, on account of the Expence, not even that of Transports in carrying them to West Florida; for that cannot be said to be an extraordinary Expence, since the Troops must be removed, & carried somewhere; either to Britain, or to our remaining Islands in the West Indies. To bring them home in the Winter would be distressing to them, & very expensive. To send them to our own Islands, perhaps is not necessary, as the French, I suppose, think they have got enough of them already: So that I hope, what remains will be safe; and that those ^Islands^ We have lost, or most of them, will be recovered in an easier way, than by means of those american Detachments.

Besides, such Attempts against French possessions, even for the Recovery of our own Settlements, would give that Nation a just pretence to call for an Intervention of the Americans. Which might not be convenient in this early State of Negociation, and before a Return of the sensible feelings of a mutual Conciliation takes place between us & them.

10. To obviate these Inconvenies ^Inconveniences^ I would therefore propose, that the Object of this withdrawing the Troops from America, should be declared or hinted to the Commissioners to be the Recovery of West Florida; and upon that Voyage they might proceed accordingly. When arrived, they would enjoy the Benefit of a fine Climate, and it might be contrived to supply them with the best provisions at a much cheaper rate, than they are now supplied at Charles Town, New York, and penobscott. And also that the same would be done by the Americans themselves, greatly to their Content, and with much Benefit & Satisfaction to the Troops. For the People of Georgia, & North Carolina would drive their Cattle down there in thousands, & deliver them to the Commissaries of the Troops, at forty shillings a head. As a proof of this, I can shew, that they drove Cattle to St. Augustine, & delivered them at 30 Shills. Sterling per head. There would then be no want of Meat, & the People of New York & Philadelphia I suppose would send them Biscuit & Flour, at less than one half the Cost they are now supplied at in those Countries. But it is to be consider’d, that Times would then be changed; and instead of Enemies, the Americans would look upon those Troops, as Friends, & useful Customers.

If there is any thing improper in this Representation, I must plead the Excuse of the Proposal having been Suggested by one of the Commissioners, Which I could not but think would be accepted, Since, whether it is approved or not, it Shews their wish that an amicable, and mutually beneficial Correspondence, between England and them, may not only be renewed as quickly as possible, but that, in the particular Case above mentioned, there may be a foundation laid for its extension and permanency. In which light as I considered they object of the Proposal, I could not avoid Stating it.

I send under this Cover Doctr Franklin’s Discharge of Capt Tages [Fage’s] Parole.10

There being four Messengers now here, one of them Long, returns Extra, along with North, by whom this go’s— I have the honour to be Sir Your most obedient, humble Servant—