John Jay Papers

Cadwallader Colden II: Notes of a Conference with John Jay, 27 July 1777

Cadwallader Colden II: Notes of a Conference with John Jay

[Esopus, 27 July 1777]

Sunday Morning soon after Breakfast Mr. Jay Called in. I told him I was Sorry to have given him that trouble, that I had Desired Mr Sleght1 to ask Leave for me to have Waited on him. He answered that he Should have been glad to See me at his Lodgeings, however it was no trouble to him to Wait on Me. I then told him that what I wanted to see him for was to know if no Method Could be fallen upon that I might get to my own house, that I had Left my Wife and Family very unwell, had Lost one of my Best Negroes, that No hands was to be hierd and that all my farm affairs must go to Rack if I Could not be allowed to Look after them. That, as no Charge was Laid against me but my avowed Disaffection, I thought it hard to be thus Confind, When I thought that if they Confined every Man, who Disaproved of Measures as well as I did they Would have More Prisoners then they would know what to Do With.

He answerd that he Did not know of any Gentlemen of Distinction who had avowed these Sentiments as I had Done, that was left at Liberty. That it was known that Mr Banyar, was not with them,2 Yet he had behaved so Cautious and prudent as to give no handle against him. That Mr Smith had Lately talked a Litle freely, upon hearing of Which the Council of Safety had Sent for him, and that they had Let him go home again upon his Parole and Promise not to talk so freely any more.3 That as to me though there was no Charge against me of Late but Disaffection, Yet there was Strong Suspicions, And that there Was so many Instances of Gentlemen of My Disposition who had Broke throo their Promises and Paroles and taken up Arms against the Country (as he Called it) that there was no Confidence to be had in any one any more and that he Suposed they thought No faith or Promise was to be kept with the Rebels. That though they Could not Charge me with the Least Disinginuity, Yet if I thought my fate was harder then I Deserved, I must Charge it to the Conduct of Others.

I told him that My Wifes Uneasyness was Encreased by a Report in the Country (upon what grounds I Could not tell,) that the Prisoners were to be Removed to Some Distant Province, and that we in that Case Might be kept Prisoners Dureing the War. He Said no Such thing had been moved in Councill. Yet he acknowledged that should the Kings troops, approach this Way, in all Probability we would be Removed. He then added that he thought it would not be Safe for me to be at home, that they had allowed one or two to go home to take Care of their Harvests, and that they were made so uneasy by their Neighbours, that they were glad to Come back again. But that if I would Choose to be at Vanduesen at Hurley, he believed the Council would agree to that.4

I answerd that If I had but a Permitt from the Council to Return home, I should be very Easy about the Conduct of my Neighbours, that I did not Doubt I Could get three fourths of them to joyn in application for my Return, that I thought it impossible a Man Should be in Danger of Loseing his Life by his Neighbours who had Never Done a Private Injury to one of them. That if I was not allowed to Return home, it was Matter of indifference to me where I was, If I was not Carryd farther from my family and where I Could not hear from them.

Some Company Comeing in Stoped our Discourse and he soon Rose to go away. I waited on him to the Door, where he stoped and told me he would Propose it to the Council to have me Lodged at Vanduesen, I just thanked him not Being then Determined in my own Mind wether to Accept of the Offer or no.

C, in Colden’s hand, CSmH: Cadwallader Colden II Journal (EJ: 13167). Long, unbroken narrative divided into paragraphs by the editors.

1Either John Sleght, chairman of the local committee of safety at Kingston, or Henry L. Sleght, into whose custody the Council of Safety had placed Colden during a five-day leave given him on 21 July to visit his family and then return to Fleet Prison. JPC description begins Journals of the Provincial Congress, Provincial Convention, Committee of Safety and Council of Safety of the State of New-York (2 vols.; Albany, N.Y., 1842) description ends , 1: 1005.

2Goldsbrow Banyar (1724–1815), a British-born Loyalist New York City officeholder, lived in Rhinebeck during the Revolution and later settled in Albany. Sabine, Biographical Sketches description begins Lorenzo Sabine, Biographical Sketches of Loyalists of the American Revolution (2 vols.; New York, 1864) description ends , 1: 206.

3William Smith Jr., the chief justice.

4Doubtless Captain Jan (Johannes, John) Van Deusen, at whose house in Hurley the Council of Safety met between 18 Nov. and 17 Dec. 1777. Nathaniel B. Sylvester, History of Ulster County, New York, part 2, History of the Towns of Ulster County (Philadelphia, 1880), 154, 200. Colden stayed briefly at Van Deusen’s house while on parole at Hurley in September and October 1777. Fingerhut, Survivor description begins Eugene R. Fingerhut, Survivor: Cadwallader Colden II in Revolutionary America (Los Angeles, 1983) description ends , 77, 78, 82, 83.

In November, Colden was exiled to the remote Nine Partners district of northeastern Dutchess County, near the New England border, where he remained until January 1778, when he returned home and conducted additional appeals (ibid., 87–88, 90–91). In May the legislature passed “An Act More Effectively to Prevent the Mischiefs arising from the influence and Example of Persons of Equivocal and Suspected Character in this State,” requiring such persons “Solemnly and Without any Mental reservation or Equivocation” to take an oath of allegiance to the state or be banished behind enemy lines (ibid., 94). In July, Colden was called before the new and enlarged commission on conspiracies; when he refused to take the required oath, he was declared banished to New York City. After some time settling his affairs and gathering such property as he was allowed to take, he set sail from Fishkill to New York City on 10 Aug. 1778 (ibid., 96–97).

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