[JJ details his objections to John Lansing’s amendment placing a limit on Congress’s power to borrow money “without the assent of two thirds of the members of both houses present.” JJ differentiates between the powers of the lower house in money matters and that of the Senate in treaty making. In case of war, “will it be wise to put it in the power of five Men to disarm the Continent.” News arrives of Virginia’s ratification.]

Mr. Jay One or two objections—1

If there could [be] no Members but those devoted to the public Good I should think the Amendmt. good—

But factions sometimes prevail in repub[lican] Govts. the best Constituted— If a faction prevails on[e] third part of the Legislature may prevent the other two thirds from obtaining a Loan when the Exigencies of the State require it or when it would be for the public Good—…

Mr. Jay People in Republic’s come under three descriptions—

One party will favour one Nation

Another [will favour another Nation].

A third will consider only the Interest of our own Country—

Suppose a Rupture with the Spaniards urged upon us suddenly by Imprudencies there committed—

The Honor of the united States obliged to support the free Navigation of the River—

It is unwise to le[a]ve the volition of the whole to be controuled by a part—

If in the Course of Time America and England should concert measures unfriendly to France— And If Loans should be necessary— Would not france interfere— She would have Interest— Should we here Submit the will of the whole to be controuled by one third—

The Executive will rarely if ever interfere in money matters—and therefore he will seldom if ever oblige such a Bill to pass by two Thirds …

Mr. Jay— The House of Representatives are in no Instance confined to any thing but by a majority—

The lower House had nothing to do with Treaties— Therefore it was prudent to have more than a majority of the Senate— Treaties vastly convenient to a Number of States, and not other States— Therefore it was right there Should be no Treaty unless agreed to by two thirds—2

The States are represented as States only in the Senate—

The dangers of War may be sudden— The attlantic States may be much Interested— Shall the western States who are not Interested may refuse their Concurrence and One third of them prevent the Loan—

The Case of Impeachmts. does not apply— A majority of the lower House can Impeach or Indict him—but they have been more Cautious as to his Trial and made 2/ 3d necessary— This is because Factions generally Occasion Impeachments—…

Mr. Jay— Suppose we were in a dangerous war as in 78–79 or 80 Would you put it in the power of five men to disarm the Continent— Not five States—only five men in Senate may disarm the Continent—