John Jay Papers
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To John Jay from William Carmichael, 29 April 1788

From William Carmichael

Aranjuez 29th. April 1788

Sir

On the 23d instant I came to this place & on the 26th had an opportunity of speaking to his Excy the Ct de Florida Blanca on the subject of the reports which have been assiduously circulated for sometime past among the Corps Diplomatique & in the Capital of hostilities having been commenced by the Inhabitants on the Western Waters against Louisiana which hostilities were said to be secretly excited & encouraged by the United States:1 In reply to what I took the Liberty of mentioning on this head his Excy assured me that he had not recd any official accts which warranted such rumors & that he was so far from entertaining a suspicion of Congresses encouraging any Enterprize of that Nature, that he beleived the negotiation was now in a Train of conciliating the interests & claims of the two Countries to their mutual Satisfaction: That the reports to which I alluded had come from England & that the Person most active in exciting the Americans on the Western Waters to Hostilities was an Englishman whose name he did not then recollect but would mention to me hereafter. After expressing my Satisfaction with these assurances, which I observed annihilated the suggestions which had been made of Excys having spoke of this affair with some degree of Chagrin to Several of the Corps Diplomatique, I reminded him of the Amicable proceedure of Congress in having taken the earliest opportunity of communicating to Mr Gardoqui intercepted Letters which argued an Intention of some turbulent Spirits of exciting a hostile disposition in the minds of the People beforementioned.2 He acquiesced to what I said & spoke with apparent Satisfaction of the Conduct of Congress & their Minister on that Occasion.

I must be permitted to observe that I have recd no official information from you relative to the Abovementioned communication, but having obtained by the means of a Correspondent Copies of these intercepted letters & not having an immediate opportunity of speaking to the Minister, I mentioned to the Chevalier de Otamende now Principal under-Secretary in the Department for Foreign Affairs & particularly charged with the correspondence to the United States that I had copies of such Letters, altho they had not reached me officially. That Gentleman told me that the Ct de Florida Blanca had Already received them from Mr Gardoqui to whom they had been officially communicated. Not having any information but what I have accidentally learnt of the train in which our Negotiation has been with Spain for some time past, I did not chuse to put any direct question to the Minister. It appears to me now, as it has long done, that they think here, a free Port on the Missisippi will satisfy the wishes of the Americans & on that idea Ground their expectations that the instructions sent in Autumn last to Mr Gardoqui will enable that Gentleman to bring the Negotiations to a Speedy termination.3 Perhaps this concession is not their Ultimatum This Idea I communicated to you more fully in November last from the Escurial.

I found the Minister so exceedingly fatigued by conversations of several hours with the French & other Ambassadors & Ministers previous to my admittance (the Etiquette being such that Ambassadors have their audience before the Ministers & the latter the preference of Chargés des Affaires) that he was constrained to sit down to repose himself & to beg me to be seated. This being the case I deferred to another occasion the affair of the South Carolinian Frigate4 & the Complaints yet unredressed from the Havanna.5 I permitted myself however the Liberty of remarking to his Excy. that I understood the English were disposed to claim a right of trading by the Waters of the Missisippi with our Settlements & I did this in consequence of the Language held by the British Minister here to others.6 The Ct de F. Blanca rose from his chair & laying his hand on the Table declared [“]They never shall” The manner & warmth with which he said this marks the Frankness in his character, which I have experienced of his possessing whenever he can act entirely in Conformity to his own Ideas, but I believe he is sometimes obliged to combat ancient & rooted prejudices, which cost him as much if not more trouble to eradicate, than the execution of projects which he meditates to render to his country its proper respectability & to immortalize his Administration. Thinking that the Count might have late Intelligence from Mr Gardoqui, I begd to know the date of that Gentlemans last Letters & was informed that they are of the 19th or 20th of Feby. The Ct de F. Blanca complained to me much of the precariousness of Conveyance from Europe & informed me that this Consideration joined to Others had induced him to establish pacquet-Boats to sail from Corunna or Ferrol 5 or six times a year for New York when there to be at the disposition of Mr Gardoqui and that the Chevalier de Otamende would regularly Advise me of the time of their Sailing,—This is a circumstance very Agreeable to me as I shall now have a regular & sure conveyance for writing, altho’ if Curiosity is indiscreet They will not escape inspection for notwithstanding my various representations I am still without a Cypher An Inconvenience too striking to render any remark of mine necessary7

On the 21st. Inst. The Russian Minister recd. at Madrid dispatches from his court by a Courier Extraordinary. I happened to be with him when his Courier arrived & he told me frankly that he had instructions to notify to this Court the Empresses intention of sending a fleet to the Mediterranean this Spring. I have the honor to enclose the Answer to this notification of which No. 1 is the Copy8—You will find the Expressions interlined which strike most our Politicians here. On the 22d Inst the Squadron of which No. 2 is a list sailed from Cadiz, one Vessel [tousled?] and was obliged to return into Port. I am informed that Positive orders were sent from Court to hasten its sailing. If such were really given, they must have been merely with a view to excite conjecture for the Ct de Florida Blanca has declared it to be only a squadron of Evolution to try particularly the sailing of some vessels lately constructed. This Armament excited the Attention of the Court of London & the British Minister here has taken much pains to be informed of its destination, for which purpose he artfully employed others to speak to the Ct de F. Blanca before he himself touched on that Subject. They recd Assurances to the purport before mentioned, but as these gentlemen refine too much in their political reflections, I shall ^not^ be surprized to see their respective courts take the Alarm. I have reason to think the British Minister judges differently & that he has endeavoured to quiet the Alarms of his Ministry by communicating the Spanish Ministers assurances, not to leave that merit to Mr Eden who is shortly expected here. With respect to this Armament I can only add, it appears to me that Spain means to render its marine respectable & without giving just cause of offence to others it will continue on similar pretexts the same conduct In order to be able at an exigency, which perhaps ^in^ the complection of affairs may not render remote, to equip speedily a powerful maritime force. This policy seems adapted to ^the Safety of^ their Island Possessions as well as to their political connections in Europe, & is confirmed by the great attention they paid to the marine department since the peace. I submit these observations to you because they possibly may be expected from me, but I Submit them with diffidence because I rather prefer to narrate facts than to intrude opinions in which I may be deceived Myself—& of consequence contribute unintentionally to deceive others.

Wishing to convey you the earliest positive advice of the resolution of Court in the present State of the War not to oppose the Entry of Russians into the Mediterranean, I am obliged to conclude, as I fear to lose an opportunity of a Vessel from Cadiz which I am just informed is to sail the first week of next month. With great respect I have the honor to be Your Most Obedt. & Hble. Servt.

Wm. Carmichael

The Honble. John Jay Esqre.

DS, DNA: PCC, item 88, 2: 504–9. Enclosures: Floridablanca note to Zinovieff, 27 Apr. 1788, ibid, 512–13; List of vessels in squadron sailing from Cadiz, not found.

1In a letter of this date to TJ, Carmichael mentioned a conference he had had with Floridablanca on hostilities commenced by the “Kentucke People.” See PTJ, description begins Julian T. Boyd, Charles T. Cullen et al., eds., The Papers of Thomas Jefferson (41 vols. to date; Princeton, N.J., 1950–) description ends 13: 113.

2Probably references to the unauthorized actions of George Rogers Clark at Vincennes, on which see JJ’s report to Congress of 12 Apr. 1787, above; and to the incendiary activities of John Sullivan, on which see JJ’s Report on John Sullivan and Spanish-American Relations, 4 Oct. 1787, above.

3Floridablanca had sent Gardoqui a new set of instructions in September 1787 whose terms, Gardoqui thought, would have been acceptable to the Americans, but they were never presented because treaty negotiations had been brought to an end. See the editorial note “Negotiations with Gardoqui Reach an Impasse,” above.

4The South Carolina, commanded by Alexander Gillon, which had assisted in the Spanish campaign to reduce the Bahama Islands. See PTJ, description begins Julian T. Boyd, Charles T. Cullen et al., eds., The Papers of Thomas Jefferson (41 vols. to date; Princeton, N.J., 1950–) description ends 12: 100–101.

5Possibly a reference to unresolved complaints from American merchants in Havana about their treatment following the closing of most Cuban–American trade in 1783. As directed by Congress, Robert Morris had referred the cases to Carmichael in September 1784, and although some progress was made, many legal disputes remained, particularly regarding the collection of debts. See PRM, description begins E. James Ferguson et al., eds., The Papers of Robert Morris, 1781–1784 (9 vols.; Pittsburgh, Pa., 1973–99) description ends 8: 62–79; 9: 512. In his letter to JJ of 2 Sept. 1786, Carmichael noted that the case of Thomas Plunket remained unresolved and that the Spanish treasury was so low that it was difficult to obtain payment of the debts. See ALS, DNA: PCC, item 88, 468–72; and Giunta, Emerging Nation, description begins Mary A. Giunta et al., eds., The Emerging Nation: A Documentary History of the Foreign Relations of the United States under the Articles of Confederation, 1780–1789 (3 vols.; Washington, D.C., 1996) description ends 3: 291.

6Article 8 of the Anglo-American peace treaty of 1783, which Spain had never recognized, provided for joint use of the Mississippi River.

7This letter was received on 5 July and read in Congress on 7 July 1788, the same day Congress appointed oversight committees for the various departments (JCC, description begins Worthington C. Ford et al., eds., Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774–1789 (34 vols.; Washington, D.C., 1904–37) description ends 34: 300n). The committee for the department of foreign affairs looked into the question of the lack of codes, and commented upon it in its report of 14 Aug. 1788, D, DNA: PCC, item 25, 2: 495–98; LbkC, DNA: PCC, item 122, 139–40; JCC, description begins Worthington C. Ford et al., eds., Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774–1789 (34 vols.; Washington, D.C., 1904–37) description ends 34: 425–28. For JJ’s response to this letter in which he comments on the lack of a “Cypher,” see JJ to Carmichael, 23 Sept. 1788, Dft, NNC (EJ: 7728); LbkC, DNA: Foreign Letters description begins Foreign Letters of the Continental Congress and Department of State, 1785–1790, RG 59, item 121, National Archives (M61). Accessed on Fold3.com. description ends , 307–9 (EJ: 2533).

8Floridablanca’s response to a letter from the Russian ambassador, Stephan Zinovieff, informing him about the plans to send a Russian squadron to the Mediterranean, and requesting permission for its vessels to put into Spanish ports in case of necessity. See the letter to TJ, cited in note 1, above.

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