John Jay Papers
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To John Jay from Grenville, 5 September 1794

From Grenville

[Downing Street 5th. Septr. 1794]

Lord Grenville presents his Compliments to Mr. Jay— He has receiv’d Mr. Jay’s note,1 with the enclos’d remarks, and will be glad to see him at his Office Tomorrow at Twelve o’Clock.2

Lord Grenville has in the mean time the Honor to enclose to Mr. Jay, some observations which have occurr’d to him, on the perusal of the Paper which he receiv’d from Mr. Jay.

Observations respecting the North Western Boundary of the United States of America.

It cannot for a moment be admitted, that the proposed arrangement on the subject of the northwestern boundary is properly to be consider’d in the manner in which it is spoken of by Mr. Jay, namely, as a Cession or Dereliction of Territory on the part of the United States,

This Boundary to the north West, as fix’d by the Treaty, is a Line “to be drawn from the Lake of the Woods, in a due west course to the Missisipi.” There are in this agreement Two distinct parts.

1st. That the Boundary Line should be drawn, in a due Westerly course, from the Lake of the Woods;— And

2d. That it should likewise be drawn, in a due westerly course, to the Missisipi.3

If such a Line cannot in fact be drawn between those points, there can be no ground for considering one part of this stipulation as more permanently fixed than the other, or as affording a more equitable ground for any future arrangement; and it would be quite as reasonable for this Country to consider as a Cession of Territory on our part the adoption of any other boundary, than that of a due Westerly Line striking the Missisipi; as for the United States to urge that such a Cession exists on their part, if such a Line is not drawn from the Lake of the Woods.

To this consideration must be added, that which so plainly results from the Article respecting future Navigation of the Missisipi, on which head it seems sufficient for the present to remark that such a right evidently and necessarily implies the possibility of access to that River, without passing thro’ a foreign Territory.4

Little objection occurs to the making an actual Survey, except that of Delay. If, on that Survey, the stipulations in the Treaty should be found to be compatible with the real Geography of the Country, it is certain that no further dispute could exist on that point.

But, if we have from the best information on the subject sufficient reason to believe that no such line can be drawn as is mentioned in the Treaty, it cannot be desireable, when all the interests of the Two Countries with relation to each other are under discussion, with a view to lasting friendship, to leave unsettled so material a ground of difference, as that of an unascertain’d Boundary— The mode of settling that point is necessarily connected with the general result of the present negotiation.— If no more can be accomplished on any other point, than the doing strict justice between the Parties, according to existing Treaties and the Laws of Nations, the appointment of Commissaries, as proposed by Mr. Jay, does not appear ill adapted to obtain the same object as to this point; provided that those Commissaries are distinctly enabled to take into their consideration the 8th. Article, and to give to that stipulation such effect, as they shall think it ought in justice to have, in the formation of a new Boundary line.5

But, if the negotiation should lead to new Stipulations of mutual advantage, no Subject appears more proper for the application of that Principle, than one in which there exist two Doubtfull & contradictory Claims, founded on an Agreement which cannot by any possibility be executed: especially if it be true, as it is considered here, that this is a point, where any Advantage whatever it should be, which Great Britain might acquire, would, under all circumstances, be found at least equally beneficial to the United States.

C, DNA: Jay Despatches, 1794–95 (EJ: 04317); C, UK-KeNA: FO 95/512 (EJ: 03985); C, NNC (EJ: 08526, EJ: 08532); C, NHi: King (EJ: 04449); C of observations, UK-KeNA: FO 95/512 (EJ: 05002); LbkC, in JJ to ER, 13 Sept. 1794, NNC: JJ Lbk. 8.

2For a summary of this meeting, see JJ to ER, 13 Sept. 1794, below.

3Article 2 of the Treaty of 1783 reads: “… thence through Lake Superior northward of the Isles Royal and Phelipeaux to the Long Lake; thence through the middle of said Long Lake and the water communication between it and the Lake of the Woods, to the said Lake of the Woods; thence through the said lake to the most northwesternmost point thereof, and from thence on a due west course to the river Mississippi; thence by a line to be drawn along the middle of the said river Mississippi until it shall intersect the northernmost part of the thirty-first degree of north latitude.”

4See Art. 2 of Grenville’s draft of a general treaty in his Draft Treaties of Amity and Commerce, 30 Aug. 1794, above.

5Art. 4 of the Treaty of Amity, Commerce, and Navigation of 19 Nov. 1794, much as JJ suggests here, committed the two parties to make a joint survey of the area and, if the survey established that the river did not intersect the line specified in the Treaty of 1783, to engage in amicable negotiation to settle the issue conformable to the intent of the Treaty of 1783. No survey was undertaken at the time. The boundary in this area was finally settled in Art. 2 of the Webster-Ashburton Treaty of 1842, which conferred the territory Grenville claimed to the United States. Art. 4 of this treaty confirmed all land grants made by Britain as well as all “equitable possessory claims arising from a possession and improvement” of lands held more than six years before the date of the treaty. Art. 7 opened sections of the St. Lawrence, Detroit, and St. Clair rivers to navigation by both parties.

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