James Madison Papers
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To James Madison from George Joy, 27 September 1815

From George Joy

London 27th Septr: 1815

Dear sir,

There is one subject on which I ought to address a separate line to you; and I am glad of the opportunity presented by Mr: Langston, which I consider the best I have had for a long time. The question who is to be President, at the next election, is not unfrequent; and as the Idea is gone forth that it must not be a Virginian, and it has even been understood that Mr: Monroe will not stand for it; Mr: Tompkins & Mr: Adams have been named. The former was first suggested to me by Mr. Crawford; and tho’ I have not seen enough from him, to enable me to form an opinion on so grave a subject; I may say that what I have seen has given me a very favorable impression of his Character. The latter I have long looked to as one of the future Presidents of the united States; and one that would fill the Chair with the dignity, firmness, and ability, that the Station requires. It is long since I have given up all hope of a unity of opinion with any man on every Subject; and I differ widely from him on that of Buonaparté; in whose popularity he had no faith on the 15th, or even on the 25th, of March; but whom he has since found the Idol of the nation; whereas I consider, even the votes given him, to have resulted from an artificial State of the public mind, wch. he had first created, by sending forth “the Legion fiends of Glory and of Gold,”1 and ramifying the military into places of great and small Influence in every town and Village in the Country. He gives me his opinion on these subjects with great boldness and energy; because, as he says, he knows that I think just the contrary.

Nevertheless we are on very good terms; and I hope to see him President; and that, on account, among other things, of his seniority in years & public service he will precede Mr: Tompkins: but I do not wish him to be a Candidate at the next election; nor does he wish it himself. On opening the Subject to him, I found, what I had not contemplated, but was glad to hear, that he hoped for your Continuance in the Chair. The motives with Genl: Washington & with Mr: Jefferson for retiring from public Life, do not, I trust, exist with you. You have had your Share of bodily infirmities; and are not so far advanced in years. I see not the least necessity for establishing 8 Years as a precedent; with the advantages of Experience, and faculties unimpaired, you may render services to the Country in its actual situation which can hardly be looked for from another; but above all it is necessary that the enemies of the Country should be undeceived with respect to the weight and power of our domestic dissentions. Look for example to the speech of Lord Castlereagh, referred to in a Note page 5 or 6 of my Conciliator No 11.2 I do think that, abstracted from all Consideration of personal feeling, the best Interests of the Country require that such insinuations should be chastised; and if it were not convenient to remain in the Presidency more than a year or two, I would still stand the election, and resign at my Leisure. Mr: A. says he has seen no evidence of your intention to quit. It is evidently his desire that you should not; and he assures me, (or rather did, for it is some days since this Conversation took place,) that if you consent to remain, you shall have his support. It would be difficult, and even disgusting, to lay before you all the reasons for the necessity of correcting these miserable John Bulls of all ranks. It is not a 14night since I was gravely asked, by a man of the Law, “why then is Madison such a friend of Buonaparte?” and since that time a townsman of my own, of respectable Connexions, has roundly asserted that “every body Knew that our Govt: had precipitated the War, because they Knew the orders in Council were going to be repealed.” The man was at table to whom the Letter of Mr Perceval was addressed, of which I sent you the substance; but Said nothing about it. However my Townsman did not get off without a sharp reprimand from another Gentleman; but such Language continues current, and efficacious in maintaining a hostile mind. I rest always, very truly, Dear sir, Your friend & Servt:

Geo: Joy.

I have a letter from Mr: B. Joy dated Baltimore 31st July from which I am led to expect the arrival of my Commission daily.3 I have letters from Doctor Eustis to the 8th Inst: and had he since received it; he would have advised me.

RC and FC (DLC: Rives Collection, Madison Papers). RC cover sheet marked “private”; docketed by JM. FC, without postscript, sent as an enclosure in Joy to JM, 6 Oct. 1815.

1Joy quoted from the opening lines of “The Economy of Vegetation,” part one of British botanist Erasmus Darwin’s The Botanic Garden. A Poem, in Two Parts. … (2nd Amer. ed., New York, 1807; Shaw and Shoemaker description begins R. R. Shaw and R. H. Shoemaker, comps., American Bibliography: A Preliminary Checklist for 1801–1819 (22 vols.; New York, 1958–66). description ends 12395).

2The note to which Joy referred was on the sixth page of the manuscript copy of his “Conciliator” essay number eleven, enclosed in his 23 Feb. 1815 letter to JM. It read as follows: “Not only the President, but the whole of the great branch of the legislature and one third of the smaller were reelected after the declaration of war, and even after the disasters of the first Campaign without any material change of men or measures; yet we are absurdly flattering ourselves with the hopes of an effectual opposition to the Government. The Noble Lord that opened the debate of the 18th of feby: 1813 is reported to have encouraged this error, by stating that the conduct of Mr Madison was evidently strongly disapproved in the Eastern States by his not having had a single vote in them for his reelection. But by the mode of Election adopted in each of those states, he must have had all or none; and whether all or none may be decided by the smallest majority in the choice of the Electors by the Legislature: It may depend on a single vote and I believe has once been so decided in the large State of Massachusetts.”

3Joy probably referred to an updated commission for the U.S. consulate at Rotterdam. He had been appointed to the position in 1807, but did not assume its duties at that time; nor did he do so in 1815 or afterwards (Senate Exec. Proceedings description begins Journal of the Executive Proceedings of the Senate of the United States of America (3 vols.; Washington, D.C., 1828). description ends , 2:59–60; Joy to JM, 27 June 1809, PJM-PS description begins Robert A. Rutland et al., eds., The Papers of James Madison: Presidential Series (9 vols. to date; Charlottesville, Va., 1984–). description ends 1:268; Joy to JM, 17 June 1817, PJM-RS description begins David B. Mattern et al., eds., The Papers of James Madison: Retirement Series (3 vols. to date; Charlottesville, Va., 2009–). description ends 1:61–62).

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