James Madison Papers
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https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Madison/04-03-02-0262

To James Madison from George Joy, 16 March 1824

From George Joy

London 16th Mar. 1824

Dear Sir,

I sent you on the 4th Ult: the Debates on the King’s Speech; and I now cover to your address those on the Motion of the Marquess of Lansdown.1 I also annex Extracts from my Correspondence with Mr. Adams2 to which my recollection has been called by the speech of Lord Ellenborough. It is as well to know the true Case; which his Lordship evidently does not know. It is indeed very possible that som⟨e⟩ Officers may have been prevented from embarking for South America by the ostensible measures of the Govt., but it could only have been for want of particular enquiry into their real intentions. Always very faithfully Dr sir, Your friend & Servt.

G. Joy

RC and enclosure (DLC). RC cover stamped: “Forwarded by Y. O. St: Thos. W. Evans Liverpool”; postmarked at New York, 26 Apr.; docketed by JM. For enclosure, see n. 2.

1On 15 Mar. 1824 the Marquess of Lansdowne proposed in the House of Lords “an address to his Majesty for the recognition of the independent States of Spanish America.” In the debate that ensued, Lord Ellenborough pointed out that the real question was “not whether we should now recognize the independence of colonies separated from Spain, but whether we should recognize colonies once belonging to Spain, Spain being now in the power of France.” Moreover, he said, “he feared that South America would not forget, though he would wish to endeavour to make her forget our foreign enlistment bill, which under the name, and with the real appearance of neutrality, was decidedly hostile to South America, and friendly to Spain” (Times [London], 16 Mar. 1824).

2The enclosure (2 pp.) includes extracts of Joy to John Quincy Adams, 4 Nov. 1817, and 16 July 1819, in the first of which Joy noted that “you may depend upon it, whatever the outward and visible signs may be, not a man will be prevented from embarking, while there is a man disposed to embark in the Cause of the Patriots; nor will a shilling of the half pay be finally lost: Officers that were wavering in this apprehension have been let into the secret.” In the second extract, Joy wrote “in the foreign Enlistment Bill, the same shilly-shally measures were observed as two years ago in regard to the proclamation—it was delayed from day to day to give recruits embarked in the very Harbour of Portsmouth an opportunity to escape.”

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