John Jay Papers
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To John Jay from Cave Jones, 18 September 1811

From Cave Jones

New York September 18th: 1811

Dear & Respected Sir

The communication1 which you were pleased to make to me on the affairs of the Church, has been of essential importance; and as the obtaining of one favour naturally emboldens to further advances, I take the liberty again to address you.

Since I had the pleasure of learning your sentiments on the matters at issue, you have had as I learn an opportunity of perusing Dr. Hobarts statement on the other Side of the question. Though I feel a full confidence that your opinion will not be materially changed by that production, on the leading points of controversy; yet it appearss to be a duty which I owe to myself & to my cause, to suggest that should it be necessary, & should a favourable opportunity present, when without shackles & without apprehension I may be able, to reply; it will be in my power to set the several subjects in a different point of light from that in which they now appear.

It would take up too much space in a private letter to enter on particulars. But I will take the liberty just to remark that several of the Certificates ^can^ be entirely overthrown; of others the authors have spoken a language altogether different; and that in various instances means have been resorted to, which would easily procure testimonials of this nature to almost any thing which might be desired.

Respecting the treatment to Dr. Beach;2 notwithstanding the positive manner in which Dr. Hobart has denied the representation given by me; yet Dr. Beach is ready to attest that my statement is perfectly correct as far as it goes; but that it is not in language sufficiently strong to do justice to the subject.

As to what has been drawn out of Dr. Beach respecting Dr. Hobart’s relinquishing pretensions to the Episcopate being made by me a condition of reconciliation; Dr. Beach will state in explanation, that the mention of this grew out of a conversation; and if it is to be considered as a condition, it was a condition not of reconciliation absolutely, but of reconciliation by burying every thing in oblivion

With reference to the last interview with Dr. Harris,3 great disingenuousness is used. Dr. Hobart has stated that the reason assigned by Dr. Harris for not wishing to alter his answers was that he could not please both sides; & he deduces from this some very unfavourable insinuations.— Instead of which Dr. Harris has declared, & is ready to declare, that the reason assigned to Dr. Hobart was to this effect: “I have drawn up these answers, Dr. Hobart, after mature reflection, & according to my conviction of what is proper & right. Mr. Jones is not more satisfied with them than you are. But I have not altered any to satisfy him; and it is not therefore reasonable that you should require me to alter in order to satisfy you.[”]

The business of Mr. Feltus4 will be shown to stand precisely on its former footing. And of the correctness of Mr. How’s5 statement, only one instance need be adduced. Respecting his conduct at St. John’s Church, after a formal preface that he has a correct & clear recollection of all the attending circumstances, he proceeds to state, that he handed the patten first to the Bishop, then to a Clergyman near him, & afterwards advanced a few paces towards me. While the truth is, that the Bishop was at that time on his visitation up the country. And that he might not have the subterfuge of saying, as some of his friends have since said in explanation, that B [isho]p. Hobart was meant; it happened that neither was Dr. Hobart present; but his place was supplied by a Clergyman from the country.

I beg your pardon, Dr. Sir, for troubling you with these details. But it seemed proper that you should be apprized of the gracious grains of allowance, which it will be necessary to use.

Matters still remain in the same unsettled & unhappy state. Every reasonable proposition, which could be expected from gentlemen & from Christians, has been made both by myself & all concerned, for an amicable adjustment. But all to no effect. Nothing it seems will satisfy the gentlemen who have been opposed, short of my removal from the city, or at least from my living in this Church. And in order to bring this to bear, the Vestry have assumed to themselves the existing controversy; that so the case may be brought under the 32d. Canon of the Church. A resolution to this effect has been passed in that body; & a copy of the proceeding has been sent to me by the Bishop. In return I have presented a Remonstrance & Protest against the proceeding under that Canon, as altogether inapplicable to the case.— Here the matter will probably rest ’till the Convention.

I am persuaded, the gentlemen of legal knowledge in the Vestry were well aware that the ground assumed is untenable. But it was probably intended to lead to another step, which would promise to effect the same end, though in a different way. In order to this, a proposition has been made by the Vestry indirectly, to settle on me an annuity, provided I will resign. Supposing this to be done in an honorable way, which is the only form in which it would for a moment be listened to, many considerations conspire to recommend it, in the present unhappy state of affairs. On the other hand, it is a question with me, whether I ought to quit the ground at the present momentous period, even so far as to relinquish my living, while still remaining in the city. This I shall not do without the entire consent & advice of my friends.— If it would not be presuming too far to expect it, I should be highly gratified & obliged by your counsel in the case.

What will be done at the approaching Convention, it is impossible to divine. That some overwhelming measure will be attempted, we have reason to expect, from what has already been done, & from movements which are made. If any thing is attempted, it will undoubtedly be carried; unless some powerful friend shall come forward among the Laity, who can make a proper stand against the influence which hitherto has always directed.— May we not venture to hope that you, Respected Sir, may be induced at such a trying & momentous period, to forego your retirement, in order to protect the oppressed, & to save the Church from the difficulties & dangers which impend? Excuse the liberty which I have taken; & accept of the best wishes for your health & happiness, from— Dear & respected Sir Your Obedt. Servt.

Cave Jones

ALS, NNC (EJ: 09065). For JJ’s reply, see his letter to Jones of 26 Sept. 1811, below.

Cave Jones (1769–1829), Episcopal clergyman and assistant minister at New York’s Trinity Church. A falling out between Jones and the New York Episcopal Church disrupted church activities in New York City and much of the state. When Benjamin Moore stepped down as bishop of the diocese of New York in 1811 and the church leadership called for the election of an assistant bishop, Jones became embroiled in a dispute with his rival John Henry Hobart (1775–1830) over who should succeed Moore. This conflict spilled into print as a pamphlet war ensued between Jones, Hobart, and their respective supporters. Hobart won out over Jones and was elected as assistant bishop in 1811, eventually succeeding Moore as bishop five years later. Jones remained in dispute with the Vestry of Trinity Church, and this conflict was finally resolved in October 1813 after the disputing parties had to seek outside arbitration. PJM became involved in defending Jones’s position, and spoke out on his behalf at a public meeting held at Mechanic Hall on 8 Jan. 1812. Jones’s supporters bolstered their case by including two letters that JJ sent to Jones on 25 June 1811, Dft, NNC (EJ: 08710); and 13 Jan. 1812, Dft, NNC (EJ: 08712). See also JJ to Jones, 26 Sept. 1811, below; Jones to JJ, 15 June 1811, ALS, NNC (EJ: 09062); and 2 Jan. 1812, ALS, NNC (EJ: 09063); JJ to PAJ, 4 Feb. 1812, below; WJ to JJ, 11 Feb. 1812, below; and PAJ to JJ, 27 Mar. 1812, ALS, NNC (EJ: 06161); The Resolutions adopted at a meeting of the Episcopalians at Mechanic Hall: also, two letters from the Honorable John Jay, to the Rev. Cave Jones (New York, 1812; Early Am. Imprints, series 2, no. 26545); and A history of the Parish of Trinity Church in the City of New York, part 2 (New York, 1901), 208–28, 320–23.

1Probably JJ to Jones, 15 June 1811, Dft, ALS, NNC (EJ: 09062).

2Abraham Beach (1740–1828), assistant minister of Trinity Church.

3William Harris (1765–1829), rector of St. Mark’s Church in the Bowery.

4Henry J. Feltus (1775–1828), rector of St. Ann’s Church in Brooklyn.

5Thomas Y. How (1776–1855), assistant minister of Trinity Church.

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