Notes on Debates, 12 April 1783
Notes on Debates
MS (LC: Madison Papers). For a description of the manuscript of Notes on Debates, see , V, 231–34.
A letter of the 16th. of Decr. O. S. was rcd. from Mr. Dana, in which he intimates that in consequence of news of peace taking place & independance being acknowledged by G. B. he expected soon to take his proper station at the Ct. of St. Petersburg, & to be engaged in forming a Commercial Treaty with her Imperial Majesty.1
Mr. Madison observed that as no powers or instructions had been given to Mr. Dana relative to a Treaty of Commerce, he apprehended there must be some mistake on the part of Mr. Dana, that it wd. be proper to enquire into the matter & let him know the intentions of Congs. on this subject.2 The letter was committed to Mr. Madison Mr. Gorhum & Mr Fitzsimmons.3
Mr. Rutlidge observed that as the instructions to Foreign Ministers now stood it was conceived they had no powers for commercial stipulations other than such as might be comprehended in a definitive Treaty of Peace with G. B.4 He said he did not pretend to commercial knowledge but thought it wd. be well for the U. S. to enter into commercial Treaties with all nations & particularly with G. B. He moved therefore that the Come. sd. be instructed to prepare a general report for that purpose.
Mr. Madison & Mr. Fitzsimmons thought it wd. be proper to be very circumspect in fettering our trade with stipulations to foreigners, that as our stipulations wd. extend to all the possessions of the U. S. necessarily—& those of foreign Nations havg. colonies to part of their possessions only;5 and as the most favd. nations enjoyd greater privileges in U. S. than elsewheres, The U. S. gave an advantage in Treaties on this subject,6 & finally that negociations ought to be carried on here, or our Ministers directed to conclude nothing without previously reporting every thing for the sanction of Congs. It was at length agreed that the Come. sd. report the general State of instructions existing on the subject of commercial Treaties7
Congress took into consideration the report of Secy. for F. A. for immediately setting at liberty all prisoners of war,8 & ratifying the provisional articles. Several members were extremely urgent on this point from motives of Œconomy. Others doubted whether Congs. were bound thereto, & if not bound whether it would be proper. The first question depended on the import of the provisional articles, which were very differently interpreted by different members. after much discussion from which a general opinion arose of extreme inaccuracy & ambiguity as to the force of those articles, the business was committed to Mr. Madison, Mr. Peters & Mr. Hamilton who were also to report on the expediency of ratifying the said articles immediately.9
1. The dispatch to Robert R. Livingston, secretary for foreign affairs, from Francis Dana, minister-designate to Russia, is printed in ., VI, 170–71.
2. In view of Dana’s commission and instructions of 19 December 1780, JM’s statement was inexact. As Livingston informed Dana in a dispatch of 1 May 1783: “With respect to a commercial treaty, none can be signed by you. Your powers only extend to ‘communicate with her Imperial Majesty’s ministers on the subject of a treaty,’ &c., but not to sign it” (, XVIII, 1166–73, and esp. 1172; ., VI, 403).
3. Before Thomas FitzSimons reported for this committee on 22 April 1783, Congress had also referred to his committee Livingston’s letter of the day before, enclosing Dana’s dispatch of 19 December (O.S.) 1782, “just received” (ibid., VI, 171–72, 388; , XXIV, 267, and n. 1, 348–57).
5. Lacking colonies, the United States, in contrast with Great Britain and many of the powers of western Europe, had no navigation acts or their mercantilistic equivalents obliging colonists to restrict most of their trade to or through the mother country. See , V, 476; 477, n. 4; JM Notes, 27 Jan. 1783, n. 10.
6. The reference was especially to the second, third, fourth, and fifth articles of the Treaty of Amity and Commerce with France and to the second, third, and ninth articles of the similar treaty with the Netherlands (, XI, 423–25; XXIV, 69, 71). See also , III, 189, n. 6; IV, 13; 16, n. 29; 392; 393, n. 17; 410–11.
7. A note by Charles Thomson in one of his record books indicates that no report on this subject was rendered by the committee before it was superseded on 6 May by a new committee (NA: PCC, No. 186, fol. 94). On 28 April the arrival of John Adams’ dispatch of 5 February 1783 concerning a commercial treaty with Great Britain led Congress to appoint a committee, Hamilton, chairman, on that particular phase of the general problem (., VI, 242–47; NA: PCC, No. 186, fol. 97).
8. JM Notes, 10 Apr., and n. 4. On 11 April Livingston recommended that Congress have Benjamin Lincoln, secretary at war, and Robert Morris, agent of marine, “take order” for the immediate discharge of all prisoners at war, “as well those upon Parole, as others in actual Confinement.” On that day Livingston wrote to General Sir Guy Carleton, and on 12 April to Admiral Robert Digby, informing them of his recommendation to Congress (NA: PCC, No. 52, fols. 225–32; No. 79, III, 149, 165–71, 178). See also JM Notes, 15 Apr. 1783, and n. 2; , XXIV, 242–43.
9. For the report of the committee and the differences of opinion concerning “the import of the provisional articles” of peace, see JM Notes, 14 April 1783.